The Overall Buzz about Managed Futures from The Top Managers Themselves

Kudos to HFR and CTA Intelligence Magazine for putting on a different event in Westchester Mon/Tues… if nothing else, they know how to pick a hotel – the Ritz was as ritzy as you would expect.

But this wasn’t the usual “promise” of matching up managers with potential investors, which more often than not fails to materialize (on the investor front…the managers always show up). This event was more of a brainstorming session on how to raise assets rather than a place to find assets… as well as an opportunity for small and midsize CTAs to mingle and question billion dollar managers, pension consultants, and multifamily office reps on how to crack into their slice of high society.

“How do I get you to look at my program?” was an often asked question, as well as specifics on how investors are viewing the managed futures space right now.

And while we were asked not to share the names of those who made certain comments and remarks (so as to foster a more open dialogue), CTA Intelligence did give us the green light to share some of what was said and discussed in an anonymous fashion.

Without further ado – items overheard at the CTA Leaders Summit:

  • The current environment for managed futures reminded one participant of a Chicago CTA conference in 1988 which was dubbed “the wake by the lake” because of the environment surrounding managed futures and a feeling that trend following didn’t work anymore (sound familiar?).
  • to a man (and woman), the feeling was that it is a very tough environment for raising money for managed futures right now….even for the managers who are doing quite well, as they get lumped in with the asset class as a whole.
  • Managed futures investors have become more sophisticated in past 10 years, moving from performance chasers looking for 40% years to asset allocators putting a portion of total portfolio towards managed futures. Canadian pensions are particularly up to speed on managed futures and “get it”, although they are increasingly bringing it “in house”.
  • Having said that… Family office and pension folks made it clear that performance still gets you in the door, and that even those big money folks are apt to want to do more of what’s working (equities right now) and less of what’s not (managed futures). They are a lot more like your average investor than you would think…
  • The amount of money allocated to alternatives by the “big money” is highly variable but in the range of 10% to 40%, with a fifth or so of that dedicated to managed futures.
  • Out of 90 approved hedge fund managers (including managed futures) and one big pension consultant, only 2 are under $1 billion…highlighting how the big just keep getting bigger. When pressed on how these investors reconcile the often lower performance profile of large managers against mid-size managers, the response was essentially that they are willing to pay a “safety” premium in a sort of “nobody ever got fired buying IBM” sort of way.

On to the market forecast looking ahead, which was all over the board as could be expected. Some of the forecasts overheard:

  • Stability breeds instability
  • discretionary macro will be a leader in 2014
  • with rates where they are now, we’re looking at bonds as a risk asset
  • equities are fairly priced right now, credit is fairly priced right now
  • a tail event is coming in markets other than equities

Elsewhere, an interesting panel talked about the explosion in volatility trading via VIX futures and options, and how volatility is becoming sort of its own asset class, and managers dedicated to the space are starting to pop up. An attendee had this to say about investors’ volatility appetite: “Since 09 – the environment has changed, moved from How do I buy volatility… to How do I manage volatility…. To How do I get yield from short volatility.”

Finally, there was talk in between session debates about the newest threat/opportunity to CTAs, low cost beta replication products, which purport to provide managed futures – like returns with a cost of under 1% versus the usual 2% and 20%. The best argument against these was that they are designed to be average – to track the index… While a manager is designed to beat the pants off the index, although not all do, for sure.

P.S – The best part of all was the late night story of a cosmetic salesman turned LIFFE futures pit trader who used ever more ingenious ways to do arbitrage between Chicago and London bond prices (including hotwired calculators and hidden earpieces), but we’ll save that for another day…



















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Forex trading, commodity trading, managed futures, and other alternative investments are complex and carry a risk of substantial losses. As such, they are not suitable for all investors.

The entries on this blog are intended to further subscribers understanding, education, and – at times- enjoyment of the world of alternative investments through managed futures, trading systems, and managed forex, and is not intended as investment advice, or an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument. Unless distinctly noted otherwise, the data and graphs included herein are intended to be mere examples and exhibits of the topic discussed, are for educational and illustrative purposes only, and do not represent trading in actual accounts. Opinions expressed are that of the author.

*The mention of specific asset class performance (i.e. +3.2%, -4.6%) is based on the noted source index (i.e. Newedge CTA Index, S&P 500 Index, etc.), and investors should take care to understand that any index performance is for the constituents of that index only, and does not represent the entire universe of possible investments within that asset class. And further, that there can be limitations and biases to indices such as survivorship and self reporting biases, and instant history.

The mention of general asset class performance (i.e. managed futures did well, stocks were down, bonds were up) is based on Attain’s direct experience in those asset classes, estimates of performance of dozens of CTAs followed by Attain, and averaging of various indices designed to track said asset classes.

It should be noted that past market performance is not indicative of future market movement.No market data or other information is warranted by Attain Capital Management as to completeness or accuracy, express or implied, and is subject to change without notice.

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Past Performance is Not Necessarily Indicative of Future Results. The regulations of the CFTC require that prospective clients of a managed futures program (CTA) receive a disclosure document when they are solicited to enter into an agreement whereby the CTA will direct or guide the client’s commodity interest trading and that certain risk factors be highlighted. The disclosure document contains a complete description of the principal risk factors and each fee to be charged to your account by the CTA.